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Times Interview
The Times Interview - John Rowles, Explain Yourself to PJ Taylor
Friday, 27 April 2007
John Rowles. Photo supplied.
CHERYL Moana Marie opens the door with a welcoming smile. On the fridge door is an old black and white rugby photo of their father, pre-Second World War Maori All Black, Eddie Hohapata-Rowles. John Rowles is relaxed and refreshed as he sits to chat in a Te Atatu kitchen he’s very familiar with, after four decades of travelling the world moving from one top showbiz assignment to the next. The man with possibly the greatest male singing voice this country has produced talks of his time in the limelight, the stars he’s rubbed shoulders with and the 40th anniversary tour he’s on, which is also raising money for charity Project Hope. He laughs throughout, enjoying the recollections that saw him top the charts worldwide in the late 1960s and early 1970s. And at 60, he’s really enjoying being a dad to young children.
You’ve met more famous people than most Kiwis, but Billy T James was a star and mate. How was that friendship?
I spent 20 years in Hawaii, 1970 to 1990. I used to visit home frequently to this house – I bought this house for mum in 1970 – and I’d see how popular Billy was. He was a funny guy. He offended a few people, but the majority loved him. I used to call him from Hawaii and say I need some funny lines. When I’m singing all the time I need a break. So, over the phone, Billy would give me some of his funnies. I actually stole some of his material. So, when I came back here and did a bit of his stuff, people would accuse him of copying me. Billy and me were good friends. We went to the races once and a photographer took a couple of shots. We thought nothing of it. The next morning it was front page. It was fantastic, a great shot.
I used to own a nightclub in Hawaii called Duke Kahanamoku’s. He was the world classic surfer, the grandfather of the big surfboard. He’d make his own out of trees. I was performing there one night – [Hawaiian show legend] Don Ho had completed a season – and sitting right there in the front, looking up my nostrils, was Prince Tui Teka.
Connie Stevens and I had a show at The Flamengo, Las Vegas. Bob Hope used to come in and visit. He invited me and Connie to Houston, Texas, for a charity event at the Astrodome. On his plane was David Janssen, who was Dr Richard Kimble in The Fugitive on TV. The artists on the show, we’re talking people like Gregory Peck, Glen Campbell. The Houston Astrodome is so big that we were all picked up and driven to the stage, cause it was about half a mile away from the dressing room. I’ll never forget that time. After my performance, I decided to go way up top and at the bar was only me and good old Bob Hope. We were sitting there having a drink. On the private jet, I was looking down and said, ‘Mr Hope those are beautiful islands, what are they called?’ I was trying to make conversation, because I really didn’t have much in common with these guys. He said, ‘that’s all right son, they belong to me’. And they did, he named them. I went, ‘oh really, congratulations’. At the time I was very young, 21 and a little naïve. But I sort of held my own. I was in Elvis Presley’s room at the Hilton in Las Vegas, Tom Jones and I were at the bar talking rugby. Elvis was across the room singing with his gospel group. Beautiful atmosphere. We went there after Tom’s show, which was about 1am and we left at 11 that morning. I could go on about all the people I’ve run into to, The Fifth Dimension, Mike Connors who was [TV’s] Mannix was a good friend, and of course, Jack Lord, James McArthur and Zulu from Hawaii Five-0. Phyllis Diller and I did a show in Reno, and even met Hugh Hefner and went to one of the parties at the Playboy Mansion. That was a beautiful night. My eyes were popping out. Ringo Starr was there. We were playing pool.
Coming from little ole’ NZ, did you ever pinch yourself being in the company of some of the biggest names in showbiz?
I pretty much had that confidence and arrogance to sort of think I was as good as those singers, if not better. I was a bit cocky, which I admit. I never felt insecure. They thought I was from Hawaii. I had that bit of arrogance to carry me through and still maintain that. I think it’s important to have a little bit, not too much.
You’ve got to be confident of your abilities to make it in the business. What we would call cocky might be viewed as something different in another country.
That’s right. I’d come back with the big cigars and all that stuff. When I look back, riding a horse with a big cigar – what a joke, I did that? That was the cockiness of what I was. That was my peak, when I was really popular with those songs,
If I Only Had Time
and
Cheryl Moana Marie
, that era.
When did you know you could sing? What sort of encouragement did you get?
I always knew I had a voice, because I was doing it since I was eight. I was winning talent contests in Kawarau, Whakatane and Rotorua. I came out of that Bay of Plenty area with my pioneering attitude and came to Auckland and that’s when I met Eddie Low. The band heard me sing and play the guitar – the Elvis song
One Night With You
- and they hired me the next day. I’ll never forget the band didn’t pay me for two weeks. My father went down and picked up my guitar and amplifier and said, ‘come on, we’re out of here’. They chased us and paid the money. The ironic thing was my father kept the money. We were playing the Picasso in Cook St. It was a dive, sailors used to come down and get drunk. There were fights there a couple of nights. I was trying to avoid one and somebody was twisting my leg. I was trying to get away and it was Eddie Low. He couldn’t see whose leg he was twisting. There were a couple of talent scouts in from Australia and said they’d take Eddie and me. We took up a contract and went to Melbourne. We were doing all sorts of songs, Gene Pitney, The Beatles with Beatles wigs, solo songs and after that we went to Sydney. We joined a band called the Ding Dongers. We went up to King’s Cross and killed them up there. People loved us. Then I decided to leave to go solo.
Your records and those by Eddie are in many music collections up and down this land. And Eddie’s had a comeback in recent times. Are you guys still in touch?
We call each other. It’s not a bad idea for me and Eddie to do an album. You know what I’m saying? That would really work with the right songs, slightly in the country vein. When I went solo, I was touring with Billy Thorpe, Ray Brown and The Whispers, Normie Rowe – I was always opening for the big stars. I was known as JR. [Manager/agent] Graham Dent called me The Secret. He and Lonnie Lee signed me up and put me on Bandstand. Graham said, ‘this is what we’re going to do with you: We’re going to call you The Secret’. I said that’s not a name. However, Graham said he has a philosophy, ‘I know what I’m doing, trust me. Build you slowly as the secret, then you come out’. I thought JR was ok, but he showed me how he spelt it: JA-AR. He said, ‘you’ve got to be different’. So I rolled with it and it got me launched. I was running around performing all over Australia when Cliff Richard’s manager Peter Gormley spotted me on a talent search. He came and saw me at the Coogee Bear Hotel, called me up and said how would I like to go to England?
It was a powerful organisation. They found me some songs,
If I Only Had Time
, and
Hush, Not A Word To Mary
. All of a sudden I was going up the charts. I couldn’t believe it. After that, I was on my way. The managing director of the company said, ‘John, if you don’t ever have another hit, this song will keep you going for a long time’. After that, I had a problem, as I think they chose the wrong songs for me over there. I must have done about 20. But that’s all in hindsight. Then came
Cheryl Moana Marie
and I moved to Hawaii and Vegas. I just wish I would have had about 12 big ones in a row, in England and America.
[We digress and start talking about the late great British soul singer Dusty Springfield and London’s swinging scene of the late1960s/early 1970s]
I was responsible for breaking her nose, really. We were at a party in London and acting stupid – the band, her and me - I was chasing her, we were acting like kids. She fell over on the balcony and broke her nose. Dusty was quite a vein person and she just switched off immediately. She had her girlfriend call an ambulance. She wouldn’t let me or anyone in the room, because of the bleeding. I felt funny about that. But she was terrific. I used to go nightclubbing and the Beegees were hanging around then, so that was good stuff. And psychedelic Jimi Hendrix – there was too much dope in some of those places for me, mate. I did Cilla Black’s show once.
How did you get to record,
If I Only Had Time
?
I was quite lucky to get that song. Gordon Mills had his eyes on it. He told me, ‘another day and Engelbert [Humperdinck] or Tom [Jones] would have had that’. Those were his boys. He was a genius manager, the best. He had a gift about him. He was able to choose great songs. Gordon actually wrote himself.
If I Only Had Time
was a French melody given English lyrics. I didn’t really like it at first. I was infatuated too by the orchestra behind me, but wondered whether it was me. In those days, a lot of European melodies were coming to England and the writers were putting good lyrics to the melodies. Jack Fishman wrote the lyrics and that became my first international hit.
Back then, live recording with orchestras was commonplace in pop music. And artists and producers had large budgets.
It was at EMI’s studios in London and the budget was $240,000. I went to Los Angeles and got a $400,000 budget for one of my albums. Tommy Catalano - Neil Diamond’s producer - those were great days, Ernie Freeman, the great guy who did
That’s Life
with Frank Sinatra. Don Coster – he did my
Cheryl Moana Marie
album in LA and that budget was about $400,000. That doesn’t happen any more. In the old days, we’d walk into a studio, the orchestra and me, we did the take and that was it. And if the vocal had to be corrected, the orchestra went home because they were paid for three hours, and I stayed and got it right. That was very simple and how hits were made. Now that doesn’t apply and it’s sad.
Why did you leave England for Hawaii and the US?
I’ve always hated the cold weather. When I wrote
Cheryl Moana Marie
, I was sitting in London freezing and was watching Hawaii Five-0 on TV and thought, I wish I was there. I had the success of
Cheryl Moana Marie
in Hawaii, which was a massive hit and that would have kept me going 10 years and more. I used to go back and forth to Vegas. You’re continuously having promotion in the newspapers, so that’s how you do it. The tourists coming to see you, you build it up. I ended up at the Hilton Hawaiian Village in 1989, started again and had my own show there for a couple of years. People still remembered me without a hit record.
When did you start moving back to Australia?
In 1990, I decided to do a tour of Australia, because that’s where it all started. It was very successful and every place was packed. I met a girl there. At the time, the AIDS thing was going around. I was getting concerned that I was playing around too much. I thought I needed a monogamous relationship, instead of a girl every other week. So I actually got together with her and we got along fine. A few years went by and she fell pregnant and I have two boys to her. I’ve got two sons, Dane (8) and Blake (4), and they’re the pride of my life. I didn’t have them until I was 52. We’re no longer together, me and my partner, we’ve split up, but I see the boys whenever I want. I have to keep singing to pay for their school fees. It’s just so great to sit with them. They’re good fun and keep me alive. I live in Sydney now, too, because of them.
Through your songs, especially about sisters Cheryl Moana Marie and Tania, fans could be under the impression you’re a close family. Is that the case?
When people hear me singing about my family, they’re obviously going to think we’re a very close family. I love my family but we hardly see each other. I live in Sydney, Tania lives in Bundaberg and Cheryl lives here. If there’s one thing I’m proud of in my life I was able to buy my mother a home. Unfortunately my father died just before I bought this house. I wrote
Tania
in San Diego. I was pretty broke at the time and I needed another
Cheryl Moana Marie
. I sat down to write and thought I must have another sister to pick on.